Michiganders Chime In

"whiskeybusiness NOW A DANGER TO CROWDS NEAR YOU" (whiskey-business)
02/17/2015 at 13:08 • Filed to: winter, tire studs, Michigan

Out of curiosity and an assignment for my English course I looked into why tire studs are not allowed in the mighty mitten, and was surprised to find that technically they are 100% aye-okay with MDOT between November 15th and April 1st. What really grinds my gears is that, and I quote the Michigan State Police website here, " Note: to date no manufacturer of tire studs has supplied information to the Michigan Department of Transportation that their product meets or exceeds the required pavement wear specifications." So basically, the reason we can't have studs is because no manufacturer has given the time or though to submitting testing information. That's absurd. Even Georgia allows studs, and they're nearly tropical climate-wise. Any thoughts?

An ice racing 911 for your time.

DISCUSSION (24)

450X_FTW > whiskeybusiness NOW A DANGER TO CROWDS NEAR YOU
02/17/2015 at 13:10

That's because as soon as those studded tires hit pavement you won't have traction and will just slide.

Conan > whiskeybusiness NOW A DANGER TO CROWDS NEAR YOU
02/17/2015 at 13:11

It could be worse. You could live in Virginia.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > whiskeybusiness NOW A DANGER TO CROWDS NEAR YOU
02/17/2015 at 13:13

Alternately, the wear specifications, in addition to being a fairly stupid requirement, are probably something that would require reengineering to meet, and the bureaucracy of the submission process itself filled the makers with Do Not Want.

If once, *once* you've said to an agency that you will comply with something goofy, they will expect it in future. Extra-soft tire spikes for Michigan sales only? Subject to change of spec in future? Yeah, I can't blame them for a FYNQ.

CB > whiskeybusiness NOW A DANGER TO CROWDS NEAR YOU
02/17/2015 at 13:14

In most of Ontario it's illegal to have studs, too. I remember a guy coming in and asking for "graphite studs", because they were perfectly legal. It's hard to regulate something that doesn't exist, I guess.

And in terms of the law, that makes sense. Don't want any more wear and tear on our shitty roads than we need, and if no one is even attempting to meet a standard, then they shouldn't be allowed.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > whiskeybusiness NOW A DANGER TO CROWDS NEAR YOU
02/17/2015 at 13:15

I live in Kalamazoo MI and i agree with no studs. Our roads are fucked as it is so we dont need studs to help tear it up. Also me and my family has gotten around just fine with all season equipped vehicles from RWD to AWD and FWD. Really no need for studs

whiskeybusiness NOW A DANGER TO CROWDS NEAR YOU > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
02/17/2015 at 13:17

You are absolutely right, it is ridiculous that they would make manufacturers jump through hoops like that. My distaste with the situation remains, but is not directed towards MDOT for their ludicrous wear requirements. Its not like Michigan roads are even half-decent.

whiskeybusiness NOW A DANGER TO CROWDS NEAR YOU > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time
02/17/2015 at 13:19

I almost think the opposite. . . If the roads are so bad during the winter why bother protecting them? Just a thought, you make a good point that its possible to get by without them.

E. Julius > whiskeybusiness NOW A DANGER TO CROWDS NEAR YOU
02/17/2015 at 13:19

I'm sure it's a different situation in the northern reaches of the state, but where I'm from (near Flint), I've never ever thought studs were necessary. 90% of people I know just run all–seasons year round. I've done a few winters in all–seasons and it's really not that bad. I know people around here are huge advocates of winter tires (including myself—I have some for my car), but as long as you slow down, focus more on anticipating what's going to happen, and know how to control your car you will be fine in 95% of the situations most people encounter.

Obviously if you get unlucky and someone slides in front of you and you have to maneuver, it puts you at a disadvantage, but even then I would say winter tires at most. Studs are overkill.

That being said, the state should still make some provisions so that those who want them/need them can do so, but I don't think it's an issue for the vast majority of the population.

qbeezy > whiskeybusiness NOW A DANGER TO CROWDS NEAR YOU
02/17/2015 at 13:22

Michigan being Michigan. Tho this time it isn't their fault. But the govt probably isn't the most accomdating after living there and working for the govt.

E. Julius > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time
02/17/2015 at 13:23

Definitely agree with this. I know very few people who have a set of winter tires.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > whiskeybusiness NOW A DANGER TO CROWDS NEAR YOU
02/17/2015 at 13:23

The roads are so bad after winter. sorry should have clarified that. Once as the snow melts you see how much they are torn up and potholes there are. Its pretty bad.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > E. Julius
02/17/2015 at 13:25

on my four vehicles i only have one and thats because my talon came with summer hankook tires on it. And AWD+snow tires equals snow is no issue

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > whiskeybusiness NOW A DANGER TO CROWDS NEAR YOU
02/17/2015 at 13:29

It's a coy way of banning or limiting tire studs without banning them. In other words, classic blame-shifting. "Don't look at us - we didn't *ban* tire studs!" This is the sort of thing that when applied to regulatory capture calls for specifics of a product that oh-so-conveniently happens to be what Company X sells and not Company Y's equivalent. Even if somebody tried making a *soft* stud that would wear away on asphalt:

(a) They'd have trouble selling them in short order, because suck

(b) Almost anything they made would have something to get pilloried on environmentally -copper alloys, etc.

(c) The differences in tire stud material would be testable by cops with nothing better to do, so you might have people falling into the trap of installing "bootleg" studs thinking they could get away with it, then getting tickets, and giving studs a bad name

(d) Rigorous testing, that probably has to be carried out multiple times for every batch to ensure compliance at the expense of thousands

(e) Subject to further change, which would require reformulation and possibly change of the whole process

(f) Separate distribution channels for Michigan only?

In short, tire makers have taken one look and said, "nah, bro". Several months out of the year in a one-state market with more rural use, and a pretty slim profit margin? When they can sell engineered snow tires they sell everywhere else?

E. Julius > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time
02/17/2015 at 13:29

My parents had a set for my mom's Saab, and my car came with a set. They both had summers on when they were purchased, so same situation as you. My first winter driving though I drove '96 Ford Escort with all seasons and had no trouble getting around. Just had to go nice and slow. I think the only people I know who own winter tires are people who either own sporty cars and run summers for handling reasons and/or don't want to mess up some nice wheels they bought.

yamahog > whiskeybusiness NOW A DANGER TO CROWDS NEAR YOU
02/17/2015 at 13:33

Actually, it seems MSP should check their books:

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdot…

If that link doesn't work, a simple Google search will yield publications dating back to 1971 on tire stud usage in relation to pavement wear rates.

Mattbob > whiskeybusiness NOW A DANGER TO CROWDS NEAR YOU
02/17/2015 at 13:35

Honestly, in the lower portion of the state, I really don't see a need for studs. Also, studs really can destroy pavement, especially the garbage that passes for patches here. Can you imagine how fast the garbage patches they put down here would be ripped up by studs? Just having studs on my bicycle scratches the hell out of the pavement.

also, I don't want that dick with the home made studs having them fly off into my windshield. You know people in Michigan would make their own.

Mattbob > whiskeybusiness NOW A DANGER TO CROWDS NEAR YOU
02/17/2015 at 13:37

so your logic is, that the MDOT can't keep roads up as it is, so lets make it worse?

Sweet Trav > whiskeybusiness NOW A DANGER TO CROWDS NEAR YOU
02/17/2015 at 13:53

Quebec requires winter tires. New York does not. Michigan does not. There is legislation on the floor in Ontario to require winter tires DEC 15 - MAR 15. a span of water less than a mile across separates Windsor from Detroit... try and figure that one out...

yamahog > qbeezy
02/17/2015 at 13:56

Lol, this is probably the most lax state government a gearhead could live in. No inspections, no emissions, you can register homemade cars/motorcycles... hot rod heaven.

whiskeybusiness NOW A DANGER TO CROWDS NEAR YOU > Mattbob
02/17/2015 at 13:58

Its just different ways of looking at it. In Detroit I don't see how much worse they could get. However, I'm no expert on studs. Just voicing my thoughts.

whiskeybusiness NOW A DANGER TO CROWDS NEAR YOU > Sweet Trav
02/17/2015 at 13:59

One of the great mysteries of our times to be sure.

Mattbob > whiskeybusiness NOW A DANGER TO CROWDS NEAR YOU
02/17/2015 at 14:21

But if they can't keep up with shitty roads now, how on earth will they keep up with any more wear on the roads? There is a finite amount of money.

whiskeybusiness NOW A DANGER TO CROWDS NEAR YOU > Mattbob
02/17/2015 at 14:28

That's very true. I guess there is more wrong with the situation than just legislation.

whiskeybusiness NOW A DANGER TO CROWDS NEAR YOU > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
02/17/2015 at 14:32

All very well thought out points. Makes me a little disappointed in all parties involved. And I think you hit the nail on the head when it comes to blame-shifting, it all makes perfect sense why things are how they are today.